Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach.
Henry: Hello, I'm Henry Emmons and welcome to Joy Lab.
Aimee: And I'm Aimee Prasek. So here at Joy Lab, we infuse science with soul to help you uncover joy. To do that, we focus on building the elements of joy, the positive emotions in inner states that blocks for a joyful life. The element for this episode is sympathetic joy. We've explored the power behind this practice in episodes number nine and then also 36, and we even, uh, have a meditation [00:01:00] for you in episode 37. So head over to any of those, for more of the background t o this element and practice that's really powerful.
And in this episode, we're getting into three roadblocks that commonly stand in the way of sympathetic joy. The first two are the fallacies of fairness and scarcity. And the third one, maybe the bigger one. We will get into a bit later. That is the cliff hanger. So I'll give a super quick definition of those first two. The fallacy of fairness is the belief that things should be fair, if they aren't, it is not your fault. And the fallacy of scarcity is really the belief that there's not enough. Not enough time, not enough money, not enough friends, toys, things, jobs. It's really falling into this idea that everything is a competition and life is a zero sum game.
Henry: Yeah, these roadblocks are [00:02:00] both surprising because we feel that pull, that desire to celebrate with others, and at the same time, you know, these, these thoughts float in. Like when someone else is having the kind of success you want, but aren't having, well then what feelings pop up for you? Or say, your friend gets pregnant and you've been trying for years, what comes up then?
Aimee: Hm.
Henry: You know, it's just so common. To have those other feelings rise up, envy, anger, fear. It's as if we're caught in the exact opposite of sympathetic joy, where someone else being happy or successful might actually make us feel worse rather than better.
So this is understandable, considering that [00:03:00] we're steeped in this individuality and, you know, need for personal achievement or success. So how do we bypass that kind of natural built in tendancy to want that for ourselves, and then the feeling that there just isn't enough.
Aimee: Hmm.
Henry: So we like to share stories here at Joy Lab. Aimee, do you have anything that relates to this?
Aimee: Yeah, of course I do. Um,
Henry: Anything you, you can share?
Aimee: Yeah I'll just just go back a few minutes! That's pretty easy. I really, actually, I really like the fallacy of fairness, because it snags me a lot. I think all of us though, every day can get easily tempted or snagged by this obstacle. I think it's important to distinguish also that this fallacy isn't, this fallacy of fairness, isn't really [00:04:00] about whether something is objectively fair or unfair. Uh, Actually, when we're trapped in this fallacy, we can't discern the difference. You know, we think everything is unfair and not our fault because our vision is too clouded we get stuck in, as Henry was noting, us versus them comparisons for everything that comes our way. We get stuck in a victim role and in resentment, jealousy, anger, and when we're stuck in this, we can't let joy in. We don't see it, and there's just no room.
So here's just one example from last week or so. Um, so I love to drink a strong old fashioned while I'm enrobed in one of those blanket sweatshirt things that you can get on, like as seen on TV while I watch the Great British Bake or some other food competition.
And If you listen to a few episodes ago we talked about, you know, a boring life. This is, this is like peak. I love my life, my evening is boring. It would [00:05:00] make a terrible reality show, which is perfection for me. And it was perfection in the moment. The next day I would feel off like mood wise, energy wise. And finally, I've mentioned on the pod before, I was diagnosed with a genetic condition. And one of the symptoms is essentially dehydration, without a lot of water daily. So my doctor told me, alcohol is not a good idea. Keep it at one drink every now and again. And that fallacy of fairness started shouting in my head I was thinking, "This is so unfair!" I can't even have one old fashioned. And all those other people can go out and have multiple cocktails and schmooze and have the time of their lives. Of which I wouldn't wanna do anyway. I wanna be on the couch, in the blanket thing. Uh, know, "Why is it that I always need to work harder to take care of myself?"
All these, all these things start coming in. It just spirals. Much of what went through my head is [00:06:00] obviously false and all these assumptions about everyone else. And I, know, end the story feeling total defeat. But before I ran off actually with that story for too long, I paused for a moment to notice what I was feeling and realized that it wasn't really this fairness that was getting to me, right?
That came up fast fast and furious, It was actually um, that I was sad. was feeling sad because I can't a warm hug from an old fashioned so often. And you know, without that fallacy though, clouding my vision, I could think about what was, you know, what it was I was actually grieving and noticing that sadness. And I certainly was grieving the flavor, yes, but also this ritual of enjoying something that I carefully crafted. Once I sort of realized that, I could move forward. And so now begins my search for na whiskeys and bourbons. So please head over to YouTube and let me know if you have any recommendations for gin as well. [00:07:00]
Henry: Well,
Aimee: sneaky little fallacy.
Henry: That wasn't so embarrassing, Aimee. So my story is gonna be a little embarrassing, and this is the story about scarcity. So here it goes. So, uh, it started a few years ago when I noticed my son had a nice new pair of hiking shoes, and so I asked him where he got 'em. "I bought him online." He said, "There's this great website called Steep and Cheap that sells outdoor stuff at this great discount, you can get things as much as 80% off."
I think he knew immediately that he should not have told me that . Cause I'm well known in my family for buying things kind of compulsively if they are a really good deal.
[00:08:00] Especially outdoor clothing for some weird reason.
Aimee: You're in Minnesota, makes sense. I'll support that.
Henry: So I went onto their website and found that their stuff is really nicely discounted. But in addition, they offer these daily deals where they feature something at an even better discount. And if you just sign up, they'll send you an email every day with the deal. You know, it's just right in my face.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: Now, intellectually, I know that I already have enough stuff. You know, my wise mind knows that. But when I get caught up in this desire to get something at a really good deal, it's like this switch gets turned on inside. I get hyper focused. [00:09:00] I almost can feel, can feel a, a clenching goes on throughout my body, but it's especially in my chest and it feels literally like I can't enough.
I mean, I might run out of merino wool clothing, you know, socks and jackets. And now I know this is an addiction.
And really it's a lot like any other addiction. Maybe it's different in the substance and in the consequences, but they all share this kind of pattern. So anyway, after a few months, even though I thought I was being pretty restrained, My family had just a minor intervention when they saw how much stuff I I was getting. That's my son who got me onto this in the first place said, "yeah, maybe you should [00:10:00] get off steep and cheap."
Aimee: Oh
Henry: I did, you know, cuz at that moment I, I agreed with them. Now it's funny, but I haven't even thought about steep and cheap for years and just,
Aimee: Dopamine. Dopamine.
Henry: So talking about it now, it, it makes me wanna go back to their website. Aimee, do me a favor. Check in with me every few weeks just to see if I'm still off the sauce.
Aimee: God, you and me, both Henry. All of us listening, we're like, "Yeah, been there." Um, these are, these are tricky, sneaky little obstacles, but they, I think they add up, which is so interesting. Um, it totally normal, right? These feelings, these obstacles rise up in us and fine. Even if they're wild, weird or someone would say wrong. Having them rise up isn't the problem. I think [00:11:00] that's freeing.
They came up. Steep and cheap came up, that's done. Now what happens next? But that's it. If we don't notice them, they will drag us around. We have to notice them, make space for them, and then be able to shift them or release them. And I think a really helpful tool to do this and to get beyond these obstacles, uh is something called interception. We actually do this a lot in the Joy Lab program. So interoception is really your brain's perception of what's happening in your body. These messages transmitted from receptors on your internal organs.
And this is helpful because these sensations, like noticing your heart beating or your quality and pace of breathing change before you even have an emotion. That clenching, Henry described too. I had that same experience with my fallacy of fairness, [00:12:00] feeling that constriction. Um, these are often called somatic markers and they kind of give life, I think of them dimension to an emotion so that we feel it viscerally, gut feelings. So it feels even more real.
So as we practice and get better at the skill of interception, we can more easily regulate our emotions through the body and the brain, which is really powerful when it comes to good mental health. And physical health actually. Think about being able to notice that, for example, your jaw is clenched. When you notice it, then you can start to work to release it.
So my old fashioned grieving, that was kind of punny when I think about it. Um, I used interception when I paused with the flood of emotions that rose up. That fallacy of fairness grabbed me first. I think it usually does, you know, it's, it's that one that your brain wants to categorize, I'm a [00:13:00] victim, this is us-them moment. So I felt that usual rise up, tightening, kind of anger in and chest, jaw. And then when I sat with it as I described a bit, then I let it move on, and then a kind of lethargy rose up... I realized that I was sad. I stayed with that a bit to see what felt sad to me, and then I was able to regulate, to shift it toward curiosity. Like what might be just as comforting or ritualistic for me as that old fashioned.
That's kind of the movement. That's what interception allows us to do. So, as I said, we do this a lot in the Joy Lab program. Working on that interoception and then bringing in these elements, building those new pathways, from whatever rises up toward creating a different path that just feels better and builds us up. But there is one more obstacle we wanna talk about on that path.
Henry: Yes.
Aimee: Big one.[00:14:00]
Henry: Yes. So we've talked about the two little roadblocks, although they aren't necessarily so little in
Aimee: They're little, but the time. Yeah.
Henry: And they can have consequences too. So now it's time for the big one. In Buddhist psychology, it's called grasping. And it comes from the belief that you don't have enough or that you aren't enough.
That something is lacking inside of you, or that you are flawed in some way, or that your needs won't be met. So grasping, as we all know, it drives a lot of the human behaviors that can become such a huge source of pain and suffering. Grasping, and the belief that good things are scarce.
They [00:15:00] fuel all of the addictions.
This can also ruin relationships. This is the underlying root cause of a lot of anxiety and depression. So it is a really important force in our lives, and it is one well worth putting some effort to become more skilled with. So you might ask if it causes so many problems, why do we do it? So we've said this before,
remember this, when we do things that are harmful to us, it's usually because, at that moment in time, we simply are not conscious enough. Maybe, know, we're holding on to a way of life that no longer serves us anymore, but seems easier to keep living that way than to make a big change. Or maybe we're holding onto old emotions that [00:16:00] are just a huge burden, but we don't even know they're there.
So this is a good reason to learn how use the power of interoception that Aimee just talked about, because we can learn to let go of these things if we know that they're there. And the body will tell us that they're there. We just need to learn to pay more attention to it.
Aimee: Yeah, the body keeps the score as psychiatrists Bessel van der Kolk wrote. We have so much wisdom within us, uh, and we have some really great ways to practice this skill, this paying attention, this shifting, this letting go. Of course, I wholeheartedly recommend our Joy Lab program to help do that, but we also just released some meditations to help. They all work on that superpower [00:17:00] of interoception.
So meditation 34 is really about opening up and noticing sensations with that, in your mind and body. 37, number 37 is about tuning into this element of sympathetic joy, really specifically, and noticing how that feels as well. And then, uh, in the very next episode after this one, we have a meditation on letting go of an aspect of ourselves that we may be rejecting or having a hard time with. So give all of these a try when you can. You'll be practicing some powerful and really healing skills that are right there with you all the time.
So I'll come back to Dr. Bessel van der Kolk to close our episode today. He's the author of an excellent book about trauma and healing, I just noted, called The Body Keeps the Score. I think trauma sounds big, but this is really a book for [00:18:00] everyone in my opinion. Uh there's a lot in this book that speaks to what we've gotten in today with the hopeful reminder that we can overcome these obstacles and tap into that is all around us and within us. Here are two pieces that I love from that book.
First about the obstacles: " The greatest sources of suffering are the lies we tell ourselves."
And last, your superpower: " When you activate your gut feelings and listen to your heartbreak. When you follow the interoceptive pathways to your innermost recesses, things begin to change.
Thanks for joining us!: Thank you for listening to the Joy Lab podcast. If you enjoy today's show, visit JoyLab.coach to learn more about the full Joy Lab program. Be sure to rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
